End the War

When Martin Luther King, Jr. came out unequivocally against the war in Viet Nam, he was attacked from all sides, including strong criticism from many of his allies. They said that civil rights and peace didn’t mix, that he was hurting the cause of his own people. King responded that he understood their concerns, but nonetheless it saddened him. It saddened him, he said, because it meant that his allies didn’t really know him, and that they didn’t really know the world they lived in.

It’s easy to forget the revolutionary Martin Luther King when the dominant narrative—entombed in the gauzy haze of official memory—is such a sugary and uplifting story:

Once upon a time there were some mean white people (in the South) and some bad laws. But then a Saint came along and told us to love one another. He led a bus boycott, had a dream, gave a speech, and won a peace prize. Then, we were all better, and he got shot.

It’s sweet and simple, and in large part untrue. The real Martin Luther King, Jr. was an activist for just thirteen years, a loving and angry pilgrim in pursuit of justice, and he grew and changed dramatically each year of his journey. King’s speeches and sermons in the last years of his life are a chronicle of struggle, set-back, re-thinking, connecting issues, seeking new allies, going deeper, fighting harder.

In the last years of his life he was fighting explicitly for economic and global justice connected to racial justice. He spoke of the link between a rotting shack and a rotted-out democracy, between imperial ambitions abroad and betrayal of justice at home. He noted that the American soul was poisoned by war and racism, and raised the question of whether America would go to hell for her sins.

Concretely he said that the American people bore the greatest responsibility for ending the war since our government bore the responsibility for starting and sustaining it. He called the U.S. “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today,” and argued that he could not condemn desperate, angry young men who picked up guns until he first condemned his own government. He urged resistance to the war and counseled youngsters not to join the armed services. And he said the U.S. was on the wrong side of the world revolution, that we would need to rekindle a revolutionary spirit in order to create a “revolution in values”—against militarism and racism and extreme materialism—that could lead to restructuring our economic and social system top to bottom.

In the spirit of Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. we have to dare to see the world as it really is, and then to choose justice over tribe or nation or petty self-interest. We need to organize and mobilize against illegal wars of conquest and domination, send a sharp warning right now as the powerful mobilize to bomb Iran under the banner of the same exhausted lies and rationalizations, and press the demand for peace in concrete terms:

1. Withdraw all mercenary forces immediately.

2. Set a date-certain—within three months—for all U.S. troops to leave Iraq and Afghanistan.

3. Dismantle all U.S. military bases in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey.

4. Renounce all claims to the natural resources of Iraq.

5. Call for the creation of an independent international commission to assess and monitor the amount of reparations the U.S. owes to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.

This is only a start, and it is still a choice—solidarity with all people, or endless war and death. As King reminded us, those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.

44 Responses to “End the War”

  1. jarvis Says:

    You are an anti-American communist and a terrorist. I hope you get what you deserve over and over and over.

  2. chuck Says:

    A breath of fresh air. I cannot believe how brainwashed and out of touch the average American is. The lack of true journalism and the total control of TV and Radio by the Corporate Masters is complete in the control of a brainwashed Culture. The impact our citizens’ funding in just tax compliance alone of our Militarized Industrial Complex government produces destruction, death and violence all over the planet. I am shamed by being American.

  3. Jay Says:

    That’s when he got real dangerous and that’s why they killed him. I don’t buy, for one second, that the rash of assassinations in the 60’s wasn’t coordinated.

  4. Anthony Says:

    Bill, Some of what you say is good. However you don’t seem to really want freedom. You want this same “terrorist government” To steal from the rich whether nations or individuals and give to the poor. Charity is great when it is vouluntary. But it is terrorism when it is accomplished through the barral of a gun. No difference. Period.

  5. aaron Says:

    you should be hung as a traitor

  6. obamish Says:

    You are, in a word, nuts.

  7. Llad Says:

    I support your beliefs on the Iraq War. Militarism has pervaded our society. It is lethal to our republic.

  8. david Says:

    What is communist, anti-American or terroristic about proposing that the U.S. withdraw its troops from the middle east and south/central asia? Just seems like good policy to me.

  9. caseydennis Says:

    He noted that the American soul was poisoned by war and racism
    This line in your blog has became a reality some of us do not wish to face!
    Thanks for saying it!

  10. Isaac Cashman Says:

    I believe that Medinat Yisrael should make the following policy clear.
    Aelef L” Echad. TRANSLATION: A Thousand for One!
    For each Jew kill by an Islamic Terrorist Isrel shol;d kill 1,0000 Muslims.
    While I feel that the main targets should be revancnist or Jihadist Muslims. I am willing to acccept considerable collateal damage and say that group B should be the women who have given birt to or may give birth to TERRORISTS!

  11. Kalaeem Says:

    Jarvis…
    There are many sick minds in our society…and your comments of 4/15/08 demonstrate that your mind is one of the sick ones. You obviously do not comprehend what you read with your eyes. Therefore, may your vision be improved and may your mind be healed from your misperceptions and your vindictive attitude.

    Bill, you are a gift to our humanity and one who is on the path of a healer! I honor your quest and your very intelligent mind…a gift from the Divine! From one who understands, may you be blessed in your vision for justice for all humanity.

  12. Tusk Says:

    Terrorist!

  13. john bourne harbour Says:

    “those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable”

    put very well and as jarvis shows there are a lot of folks who can’t get past the hate– really sad when you think about it–

    peace–

  14. Tom Says:

    Mr. Ayers,

    Before last night, I had never even heard your name. As I watched the Dem debate, your name was brought up because of your association with Barack. Like most stories today, it seems as though there is always a second side to every story. When your name was brought up, I decided to do some research into your background. While some call you anti-American or a terrorist, I find your story to be extremely intriguing and even inspiring. I have opposed todays war in Iraq from its beginning. I’ve gone so far as to debate and argue with those that support it. My anger and frustration over this war grows daily, but yet, what have I done as an AMERICAN to stop it? The answer is, I’ve argued and debated friends…that’s it. I’ve sacrificed nothing while those fighting this war have suffered immensely and 4000 have paid for this with their lives. I’ve sat on the sidelines and hoped that thousands of others would stand up and denounce this utterly stupid war. As the war progresses, still not enough AMERICANS are getting out of their suburban lazy-boys to do something about it. As of this moment, I pledge to become a voice for peace. While I find it difficult to agree that violent revolution is appropriate or necessary, I understand there are times it is not only justified, but sometimes demanded of us as AMERICANS. Our founding fathers were incredible men…we owe them more than can ever be repaid for their gifts to this nation. As Jarvis mentioned, I also hope you get what you deserve…however I differ on what it is I feel you deserve. Now that the national spotlight has been thrust upon you, I sincerely hope you will take the opportunity to stand up for what is right, and once again become a force for ending a war. I for one will stand with you.

  15. dinosaurbob Says:

    It;s sad that in more than 30 years after the tragedy of Vietnam that there are still jingoistic people like”jarvis”, who responded before me. History has proven that the U.S. was wrong in the Vietnam war and history has already begun to write the tragedy of Iraq, Most Americans are coming to terms with the Iraq disaster and see that it is as ugly and terrible as just about anything this country’s ever done. They don’t like it. And they’re getting fed up with the neo-cons. Hopefully the American people won’t be fooled still again in another 30 years.

  16. Susan Says:

    I disagree with the above poster…intensely…I think we all know that the motive to end the war in Vietnam, it was a moral imperative….
    Sometimes the pendulum has to swing far to the breaking point for social change and social justice to occur…that does not mean that I support the killing of innocents in the name of justice, but it means that sometimes citizens must act out to end injustice whether it be Vietnam, Dafur or Tibet….Eventually when society self corrects the pendulum swings back to center….it is the way of the world…
    I condemn any hate mail you are receiving, AND ONLY WISH
    PEACE TO YOU …. NAMASTE

  17. SteveIL Says:

    Hey Ayers, remember Diana Oughton? She’s where you should be; in hell.

  18. Kurt Says:

    You are brave. Most people are not. I am sorry that you have to be brave for the rest of us, but I appreciate it.

  19. Dave Says:

    Jarvis…Exactly how is someone that endorses peace as Mr Ayers did here a communist and a terrorist? You obviously have some issues. Perhaps you would also call Martin Luther King a communist and a terrorist. Its people like you that make me sad for the future of America…

  20. hunter Says:

    You are consistent: a parasite and and killer.

  21. EuLupu Says:

    “Call for the creation of an independent international commission to assess and monitor the amount of reparations the U.S. owes to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.”

    Are you saying that after paying ALREADY WAY TOO MUCH, WE the PEOPLE, need to pay more??? For what??? If you really advocate social justice then you should change 5 to be:
    “Asses and monitor the amount of reparation the Bush’s clique (name them one by one) and the US Congress (name them one by one) OWE to the people of US (4000+ not here anymore, 30,000+ maimed) and to the people of Iraq,Afganistan(maybe millions killed, wounded and dispersed). NOT US THE PEOPLE should PAY, THEY the ELITE should!

  22. NattyB Says:

    Jarvis @4.26,

    If you’re going to call someone “anti-American” you should at least articulate what you mean by that. If the American government is engaging in something that is unjust and morally wrong, namely, the Viet Nam war, which killed millions of innocent people, for simply no good reason. Then, I would say, there is nothing more patriotic and American, to do whatever you can to stop it. Or is our duty as Americans to just nod and do as we’re told?

    Millions of Vietnamese, and Millions of Cambodians, and over 50,000 Americans soldiers died and for what? We lost the war and look what happened. Sure Vietnam “went Communist” as it is their own prerogative, but they are also one of our biggest trading partners today - which doesn’t sound too communist to me.

    Directing a few bombs at the heart of the unjust, immoral, military industrial complex during the Viet Nam war is a BRAVE act when compared to the crimes that the American government perpetrated on South-East Asia.

    “No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.
    If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend’s or of thine own were: any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”

  23. NattyB Says:

    Jarvis @ 4.26pm,

    Have you ever heard of the “banality of evil?”

    If I may speak frankly, it is Americans like you, who just nodded along, without critically thinking, why our we attacking Iraq, a country that has done nothing to us, which has led us to this current debacle where we our spending BILLIONS on another unjust, illegal, immoral war, that has diminished our world reputation.

    Call Bill Ayers all the names that you want, but he at least stands for his principles. What have you done to try to make the world a better place for mankind?

  24. Patrick Says:

    You do not live in a perfect world. If you wrote this article in Iraq about there Gov’t before the fall of Saddam Hussain, you would have had your head cut off. I think you and Michael Moore would be good together.

  25. ThunderMonkey Says:

    Wow… that’s probably the most thought out proposal about how to end our occupation of Iraq and eventually the Middle East.

    I’ve always pondered that if we quit funding mercenary oprations in Iraq, how quickly our occupation would end.

  26. Emily Says:

    While I disagree that violence can be made inevitable (violence is always a choice, not a course of action one is forced to,) I find that your statements portray a necessary moral clarity unencumbered by racism, nationalism, or religious fervency. These undesirable mental states cloud almost all the discussion of the US’s current illegal occupation of Iraq, evidenced by the lack of education among the American public regarding the subtleties and distinctions among middle eastern cultural groups, by the emphasis placed on the 4000 blessed servicemen and women sacrificed but little or no discussion of the hundreds of thousands of slaughtered Iraqis, by the continuing rhetoric which employs phrases such as “religious extremists,” and “ideological struggle,” words that are used without any irony, without any seeming awareness of the fact that for a ideological struggle to take place BOTH sides must be extremists.

    As an individual born decades after Dr. King’s assassination, it is fascinating and encouraging to learn he was an individual of deeper substance that what is taught in high school. I sincerely wish more emphasis had been placed on his work as a whole, rather than the fiction that one speech and one act of deadly violence is the entirety of his legacy.

  27. lissus Says:

    Thank you for your clarity. For the most part, I think that you are right on.

  28. USMC Says:

    ROT IN HELL YOU COMMUNIST BASTARD!

  29. Ryan Says:

    I agree, the gentrification (or as Cornell West said recently, the Santa-Claus-ification) of Martin Luther King is something we ought to resist actively. We don’t often recognize that we have a profound tradition of indigenous radicalism in the United States, so it’s very easy to feel like there’s no precedent for any meaningful change. We ought to realize that it’s possible to trace the anti-war movement back to the War of 1812, or perhaps even earlier, and that figures like King were very much a part of it. Anyway, I’ve been thinking about all this since I’m going to teach about “anti-war literature” this week…and I guess I feel compelled to comment just because the only other response is so abominable. Okay, that’s all.

  30. Debra Hope Says:

    Hey, Bill, just finished reading your book (again) and found it even more relevant than the first reading — I was raised Mennonite — always thought we were a “traditional peace” church, but my, my, my, how things have changed. The official position of the Mennonite Church on the Iraq war reads something like this: “Ummm, we’re against the war because we’re Mennonites, but we don’t want to upset anyone, so how about we support the troops?” Unbelievable. I feel sorry for the troops. I am embarrassed that American citizens think they have no employment option other than the military. But I do not, and will never, support them because they are part and parcel of the murderous military machine, used to promote American corporate interests around the world, an idea and action which I oppose with all my heart, mind and soul. Don’t ever give up — there’s a lot of support out here for you.

  31. thomas Says:

    I cannot wait until all hippies expire and are no longer a threat to the safety of our country. Mr. Ayers, you are a lying no good bum.

  32. Sandra Says:

    This you speak about is so true, I can remember march as a child for my civil rights in Chicago, and back then as I do now wanted so hope that our leaders and the average person would listen to the cry of people wanted to connect to our great country without being treated as second class citizens. But to love one another and see each other true worth to the America dream. I am now 55 years old and our country is not any closer to peace in our country or outside. When will the madness stop. Is the draft the only way to go to stop Chicken Hawks from throwing our country away for their own gains and interests. After 911 everyone was looking at each other and our country is made of all colors and religions. We could have been for growth and peace of our Nation. As a twenty year Veteran it saddess me to see that the middle class is not paying attention to the state of affairs and the restrictions that is put on them, and that econmical power is going to only 1% of Americans. I don’t think it’s a black thing or a white thing. It’s a Rich or Poor Thing and we need to spend more revenue on health, education , and welfare of our people of America and this market of wealth and control for the few. Bring our MEN and Women HOME.

  33. Kevin Says:

    “It’s not that Liberals are ignorant, it’s that everything they know is wrong.” - Ronald Reagan

    I think that sums up Bill Ayers pretty well.

    A living example of the suicidal conceit of affluence, Ayers is a product of a wealthy society (and an extremely wealthy family) whose wealth caused him to become unmoored from the reality of the world and lost in an echo chamber of self-righteous and self-destructive academia.

    Wealth has sheltered him from the consequences of bad ideas, and allowed these destructive, horrific ideas to fester and grow.

    The reality is that the natural state of the world is ugly - life is naturally “nasty, brutish and short.”

    Thankfully Free Western civilization - which is what Ayers ultimately decries - has been responsible for the longest and most successful respite from this natural state, and has brought the largest amount of happiness to the largest numbers of people in the history of the world.

    Are we perfect? No, of course not. Man is not perfectable. But rational people can recognize the difference between the freedom, long lives and affluence that we have today in the free west and the slavery, short, bloody lives and poverty that exists elsewhere in the world, and in virtually the entire world prior to the emergence of free western thought.

    On the other hand, these warped concepts of “social justice” remain firmly tethered to their roots in Marxist thought - the same Marxist thought which brought us the greatest humanitarian horrors the world has ever known. (Stalinist purges, Cultural Revolution, Pol Pot massacres, North Korea today, and the list goes on).

    And these same “ideals” led Bill Ayers and friends to believe that “good” was served by robbing banks, killing two policemen and a security guard and bombing (yes - bombing!) innocent Americans.

    I wonder sometimes how intelligent people can be so blind. Don’t you people get it? It’s the ideas, stupid!

    The Free West has fought and won two wars against the twin evil corruptions of western thought (Communism and Fascism) in the last century, and as long as people like Bill Ayers further corrupt young minds in the same modes of warped thought, it is guaranteed that we will have to fight more.

    If the people who believe like Bill Ayers ever finally get their wish, the consequences of their wrong thinking will become obvious - but it will be too late. The true horror and the real dark ages will come when these types finally achieve their vision of “social justice”. Everyone will be either equally enslaved, or equally dead - true justice indeed.

    Fortunately there remain people who are clear in their understanding of the real world. People who recognize that to protect the greater good of the most benevolent (not perfect, but largely benevolent) civilization in the history or man, “evil” needs to be recognized and fought.

    Whether that evil be in the form of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, or Hussein (whose heroes were Stalin and Hitler), fighting evil while it can still be fought is the only moral course.

    Bill Ayers is an intelligent, gifted individual, who has wasted his considerable intellectual capacity in the pursuit of evil “ideals” which he believes to be good. It’s a real tragedy.

  34. Jack Janski Says:

    End the war per Billy Ayers means the US losing the war, which is exactly what Bill the A-hole wants. Apparently Billy and his leftist ilk want to see millions more slaughtered in the Middle East this time just like what happened in SE Asia when the US Military pulled out. Ayers is the devil and hopefully will leave this earth sooner rather than later. The world will be better off without him.

  35. Jack Janski Says:

    Ummmm, look like this unrepentant hero of the Left, didn’t have much respect for women, but what would you expect from a scumbag like Ayers.

    http://www.slate.com/default.aspx?id=1008160

  36. MATT Says:

    that speech about second america sounds like a bunch of whining babies to me, veryone as the same opportunity to study and maked something of themselves, and if they dont and end up in poverty then it is their own fault. The lazy I choose not to work welfare claimers of this country is what drags things down to where they are today.

  37. Badgerick Says:

    What kind of small-mindedness does it require for so many people to equate criticism of military imperialism with Anti-Americanism? If being American truly means having to support indiscriminate world-wide murder, state sponsored terrorism, and nation building, then I suppose being Anti-American isn’t a bad thing after all. The fact that so many of the responses are so emotionally defensive betrays the unsound footing of propaganda that most Americans hang their hats on. These folks might not agree with you, but I’m sure Dr. King would, and Ghandi, and Mother Theresa, and Jesus for that matter. And, Mr. Ayers, I hope you do get what is coming to you because it seems to me that you have a lot of good karma in store.

  38. Piper Davenport Says:

    It’s sad that the mainstream American media has downplayed King speaking
    out against the war. I read one article where he was portrayed as missing
    a few nuts and bolts for speaking out against the war.

  39. Piper Davenport Says:

    I also have experienced discrimination as a result of speaking out against
    the War in Iraq. It’s truly sad what our country is coming to: fascism.

  40. Kevin Says:

    I’m not aware of an equivalence between anti-Americanism and criticism of what I’ll call “an aggressive military” (I object to strongly to the term “military imperialism” - words matter and those words are loaded with inaccurate connotations).

    However, these two lines of thought are highly correlated, so it’s worth asking “why?”.

    My personal belief is that “most” (though certainly not all) objections to “most” projection of American power stem from a fundamental belief that America is more of a force for evil in the world than a force for good.

    Clearly if you believe that America is more a force for evil in the world, it holds that any projection of American power is a furtherance of that evil. I believe this to be the fundamental driver of most anti-war sentiment in America today.

    Of course, there is a principled case to be made against any war (including Iraq) on grounds other than this. There are also those who believe in the principles behind the war, but were dissatisfied with it’s execution.

    But both of these views are a fairly small minority; I’m confident that a poll of those who oppose the “principles” behind going to war in Iraq, you will find that upwards of 80% of them also believe the US to be “generally a force for bad in the world.”

    Certainly Bill Ayers holds this view, and I don’t think I’m on very shaky ground when I postulate that Barack Obama feels the same way.

    People who hold this belief (and there are alot of them - I figure about 30% of the US population), may convince others and perhaps even themselves that they are “patriotic”, but by any reasonable definition of the word, they are certainly not.

    Being “American” means something; it is not just a geographic area sandwiched by Canada and Mexico. It stands for the ideals laid out in our Declaration and Constitution, and by the traditions, institutions, attitudes, culture, beliefs, etc. which have worked to make the United States the most successful, most free, most content civilization for the most people in the history of the world.

    Not perfect, mind you, but the best we imperfect men in our imperfect world have been able to gin up so far.

    And I’m sorry to break it to some of you, but Socialism, Marxism, Multi-culturalism, Secular Humanism, Post-Modernism, Islamism and many of the other 20th century “isms” imported during the 20th century are as foreign to being “American” as Monarchism. We tolerate them because of our ideals, and they may yet destroy us. But that doesn’t mean they are “American” - they are not.

    But what about the rest of the world, you ask? Good question. Well, we haven’t always exported the best of what we have to offer, that’s for sure. Back when the dominant world economic system was Mercantilism, we did a fine job of it.

    It was a nasty system by today’s standards, using power to dominate and exploit people and resources throughout the world. It was effectively Imperialism, and it was the way the world worked. Even just in the last 100 years, you had Mercantilist empires run by Germany, Japan, the UK, the Dutch, the Ottoman Empire, the Russians and others. Most parts of the world were part of this system, either as a mercantilist power or a vassal state. We happened to be pretty good at it.

    Unfortunately, much of the righteousness of those who believe America to be a force for evil isn’t contextualized properly, and these adherents are making the error of judging the actions of the past by the moral standards of today. I would assert that the US has almost always been on the “right” side of any reasonable moral standard in place at the time.

    Also recall that the Mercantilist world system ended only when we - the US - effectively put it to rest in the second world war. It wasn’t until then that the overseas Mercantilist empires dissolved, and were replaced with (mainly) voluntary trade among (mainly) sovereign nations and international free market capitalism began to emerge.

    What has our military accomplished in the last 100 years? Well, we freed Europe twice from militarism, conquest and fascism, and Asia once. We did not stay as a conquering or controlling power, but only in a mutually-agreed protective alliance of free nations. And when asked to leave (e.g., Philippines, France), we left.

    We saved 48 million South Koreans from the wretched fate of those 22 million trapped behind in the North. We did not stay as a conquering or controlling power, but only in a mutually-agreed protective alliance of free nations.

    We won the cold war, liberating over 100 million Eastern Europeans from the mind control, material deprivation and environmental devastation which was Soviet Communism.

    All over the world we slowed the spread of a cancerous communism, buying the time needed to save much of the world from suffering under it’s horrors while it collapsed from our pressure and it’s own hollowness.

    We have maintained relative security in the world, compared to the Darfurian hell which would await a world without our virtually unique combination of power, moral courage and general benevolence.

    Unfortunately, we did not have the political will to stop Communism in Vietnam and Cambodia. We had the military capacity, but were sapped of the will to win by internal divisions and protest. Was that a good thing?

    To those self-righteous - like Bill Ayers - who believe that they did “good” by enabling a Communist victory in Indochina, I say you are are in fact directly and personally responsible for the deaths of approximately 25% of the Cambodian population (1.5 million people) in the Killing Fields of the Khmer Rouge. Was that moral? Really?

    Pol Pot thought he was an intelligent, politically enlightened, moral, thoughtful leader too. And he was a starry-eyed idealist if ever there was one.

    To we act in our own self-interest? Of course we do! But certainly in the last half century it’s generally been an unlightened self-interest which understands that the security, wealth and prosperity of the world is also in our national self-interest.

    But what about Iraq?

    This war is ugly, and alot of people have died. But all wars are ugly, and people always die in them. All of our wars have been far bloodier and uglier than this one, and the question is not “is war bad” - the question is “is the alternative to war worse?”

    Apparently the Iraqis themselves today - on balance - believe that the alternative of Saddam Hussein was worse (look it up - the polling data is pretty clear). Recall the hundreds of thousands of innocent people slaughtered by Saddam and the tens of thousands likely being killed annually by the “sanctions” now touted by some as the reasonable alternative. And recall the abject terror under which the subjects of his fiat state lived, and the oppression of the Shia and the Kurds.

    There is no question that this war has liberated them, and that they believe (again - check the polls) they now have a much better future.

    We went to war for many reasons, especially the very REAL threat of WMDs and terrorists coming together in a very strategic part of the world. Plus the fact that they were daily flagrantly violating the terms of the cease fire under whose terms we ended hostilities in the first gulf war. And there were a half dozen other reasons - all in our national interest and in the interest of the majority of the Iraqi people.

    Oppose the war if you like, but don’t fall for the stupidity of those who argue that somehow this was all about “lies” and that decision-makers were motivated by a desire to do evil. The reality is that there were - and are more so today - extremely thoughtful, moral and highly rational reasons for this war.

    I don’t want to do evil, I know enough about the circumstances of the decision-making, and I know the difference between “telling a lie” and “believing/predicting incorrectly” in a world of imperfect information.

    And I believe on balance that this war was the lesser of two evils. You can’t close your eyes to the rational argument, cover your ears and chant “Kevin lied, people died” because I don’t have any other motivation other than my own conscience. My conscience lef me to conclude that this was the right thing, just as I believe that the consciences of the decision-makers involved led them to the same conclusion.

    But again, it’s the ideas stupid. If you have listened to a one-sided argument in an echo chamber and been convinced that “America is bad” then I would expect nothing less than full-throated opposition to any projection of American power.

    However, if you have a real and balanced understanding of our country, our imperfect world and the realistic alternatives available in a real world, you would be more likely to give the US the benefit of the doubt. You would then be more likely to listen to balanced, rational arguments on both sides and ignore the silliness.

    Some of you would still oppose the Iraq war, but I would venture to say that many - perhaps most - of you would not.

  41. EuLupu Says:

    “A living example of the suicidal conceit of affluence, Ayers is a product of a wealthy society (and an extremely wealthy family) whose wealth caused him to become unmoored from the reality of the world and lost in an echo chamber of self-righteous and self-destructive academia.”

    Expand a little and you define what?? (academia aside).

  42. Badgerick Says:

    Kevin,

    Although I disagree with your position on the war and with your characterization of America’s (flawed) benevolence, I must respect your opinion as having originated in rational thought and intellect. Your responses are in sharp contrast to people like (the poster) USMC who say things like “ROT IN HELL YOU COMMUNIST BASTARD!” in response to another’s thoughtful and fully rational position. These are the small minded and blind patriots I refer to, not you. Your opinions are valid and fully justified. Contrary to what you might believe of me I have never spent a day of my life where I wished to be anything but an American. And I have never believed that America was a fundamentally evil society. I highly value the rights and protection that this country affords me as one of its citizens, and I am proud of the generosity of our citizenry whenever disaster strikes the world. While I believe the American benevolence you speak of was true of America in our recent history, only a fool would assume that it is and will forever be true. I quote Thomas Jefferson “Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.” I think that time may already be upon us.

    and here’s another for good measure “All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.” — Thomas Jefferson

  43. Badgerick Says:

    One more thing. Kevin, the one sided echo chamber you mention surely exists, but the echo I’ve heard my entire life kinda sounded like your words:

    “We have maintained relative security in the world, compared to the Darfurian hell which would await a world without our virtually unique combination of power, moral courage and general benevolence.”

    It was not until I was taught the power of critical thinking did I learn to unlearn this type of romanticized patriotic love for one’s country.

  44. Michael Hureaux Says:

    Five years of mayhem in Iraq, the destruction of what was left of a civil society that did nothing to the people of this country, hundreds of thousands in exile, over a million dead, and all Kevin and a lot of other people want to talk about here is “intent”.

    I can’t think of anything that better drives home King’s point that a culture which spends more every year on the implements of death and destruction than it does on programs of spiritual uplift has embraced moral and spiritual bankruptcy. Talking to some of you about this puts me in mind of nothing so much as those apparatchiks who defended the policies of collectivization in the Ukraine implemented by Stalin because he was “defending the Soviet Union from wreckers. Most of what we’re seeing here is party line rationalization of atrocity and an unwilliingness to come to grips with the living nightmare of what criminal policies have set in motion.

    It really is like talking to a wall. But I’m not surprised, many white people I’ve known over my half century of life have tried to convince me that even though racism continues to exist, it’s not really racism since it’s not intended to be. Which is a lot like drinking and driving and arguing that since one never intended to become inebriated, that one isn’t. It’s a clever argument, but it’s bullshit all the same.

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