Clarifying the Facts— a letter to the New York Times, 9-15-2001
September 15, 2001
To The Editors—
In July of this year Dinitia Smith asked my publisher if she might interview me for the New York Times on my forthcoming book, Fugitive Days. From the start she questioned me sharply about bombings, and each time I referred her to my memoir where I discussed the culture of violence we all live with in America, my growing anger in the 1960’s about the structures of racism and the escalating war, and the complex, sometimes extreme and despairing choices I made in those terrible times.
Smith’s angle is captured in the Times headline: “No regrets for a love of explosives” (September 11, 2001). She and I spoke a lot about regrets, about loss, about attempts to account for one’s life. I never said I had any love for explosives, and anyone who knows me found that headline sensationalistic nonsense. I said I had a thousand regrets, but no regrets for opposing the war with every ounce of my strength. I told her that in light of the indiscriminate murder of millions of Vietnamese, we showed remarkable restraint, and that while we tried to sound a piercing alarm in those years, in fact we didn’t do enough to stop the war.
Smith writes of me: “Even today, he ‘finds a certain eloquence to bombs, a poetry and a pattern from a safe distance,’ he writes.” This fragment seems to support her “love affair with bombs” thesis, but it is the opposite of what I wrote:
We’ll bomb them into the Stone Age, an unhinged American politician had intoned, echoing a gung-ho, shoot-from-the-hip general… each describing an American policy rarely spoken so plainly. Boom. Boom. Boom. Poor Viet Nam. Almost four times the destructive power Florida… How could we understand it? How could we take it in? Most important, what should we do about it? Bombs away. There is a certain eloquence to bombs, a poetry and a pattern from a safe distance. The rhythm of B-52s dropping bombs over Viet Nam, a deceptive calm at 40,000 feet as the doors ease open and millennial eggs are delivered on the green canopy below, the relentless thud of indiscriminate destruction and death without pause on the ground. Nothing subtle or syncopated. Not a happy rhythm. Three million Vietnamese lives were extinguished. Dig up Florida and throw it into the ocean. Annihilate Chicago or London or Bonn. Three million—each with a mother and a father, a distinct name, a mind and a body and a spirit, someone who knew him well or cared for her or counted on her for something or was annoyed or burdened or irritated by him; each knew something of joy or sadness or beauty or pain. Each was ripped out of this world, a little red dampness staining the earth, drying up, fading, and gone. Bodies torn apart, blown away, smudged out, lost forever.
I wrote about Vietnamese lives as a personal American responsibility, then, and the hypocrisy of claiming an American innocence as we constructed and stoked an intricate and hideous chamber of death in Asia. Clearly I wrote and spoke about the export of violence and the government’s love affair with bombs. Just as clearly Dinitia Smith was interested in her journalistic angle and not the truth. This is not a question of being misunderstood or “taken out of context,” but of deliberate distortion.
Some readers apparently responded to her piece, published on the same day as the vicious terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, by associating my book with them. This is absurd. My memoir is from start to finish a condemnation of terrorism, of the indiscriminate murder of human beings, whether driven by fanaticism or official policy. It begins literally in the shadow of Hiroshima and comes of age in the killing fields of Southeast Asia. My book criticizes the American obsession with a clean and distanced violence, and the culture of thoughtlessness and carelessness that results from it. We are now witnessing crimes against humanity in our own land on an unthinkable scale, and I fear that we might soon see innocent people in other parts of the world as well as in the U.S. dying and suffering in response.
All that we witnessed September 11—the awful carnage and pain, the heroism of ordinary people—may drive us mad with grief and anger, or it may open us to hope in new ways. Perhaps precisely because we have suffered we can embrace the suffering of others and gather the necessary wisdom to resist the impulse to lash out randomly. The lessons of the anti-war movements of the 1960s and 70s may be more urgent now than ever.
Bill Ayers Chicago, IL
April 21, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Hey Billy boy, unless I hear you condemn the agressive military actions of the communist North Vietnamese and the murder they inflicted on the people of the South, I can only say to you STFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No matter how hard you try to justify your evil actions, you will always be an asshole who happened to serve no time for his crimes.
April 21, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Bill,
My support for you is unflinching. Those of us who really know your work, know you to care deeply about social justice and that you teach toward freedom. I am holding you and yours in my thoughts day by day.
Warmest regards,
Tamar
April 21, 2008 at 5:40 pm
What a lousy America-hating communist terrorist you are, Ayers.
“My memoir is from start to finish a condemnation of terrorism, of the indiscriminate murder of human beings, whether driven by fanaticism or official policy. It begins literally in the shadow of Hiroshima…”
Excuse me but do you even have a clue about what you are talking about? In a post the other day, you dared to call Sherman’s March to the Sea an “act of terrorism”. Do you actually understand what Sherman tried to accomplish? Do you have any idea how many lives were saved using the atom bomb to end the war?
By the way, I don’t know when you wrote the above letter, but I don’t see it anywhere on the New York Times site. As far as I know, you wrote it yesterday and put the 9/15/2001 date on it. In fact, the only “Letters to the Editor” piece from you in the New York Times dated 9/16/2001, and it was in reply to a completely different piece than the one you cite above (here’s the link). So I don’t believe you wrote what wrote above on 9/15/2001. Here’s what you said in the other “Letter”:
“To the Editor:
Re a Sept. 16 New York Times Magazine interview with me and your Sept. 11 Arts pages profile:
The barbarism unleashed against innocent human beings on Sept. 11 has in an instant transformed the complex landscape of American consciousness. I’m filled with horror and grief for those murdered and harmed, for their families and for all affected forever.
”Fugitive Days,” the memoir I’ve written about my participation in the Weather Underground and the antiwar movement and the events of 30 years ago, is now receiving attention in a radically changed context.
My book is a condemnation of terrorism in all its forms. We are witnessing crimes against humanity. The intent of my book was and is to understand, to tell the truth and to heal.
BILL AYERS
Chicago, Sept. 14, 2001″
All you are doing is hawking your book after the 9/11 terrorist attack. That adds the word “hypocrite” to the communist terrorist.
April 21, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Thanks for writing that. The New York Times misused the power of one headline and one opening sentence, and the reverberations continue today. The pen is indeed mightier than the sword, even when wielded by someone like Dinitia Smith. Let’s hope the pens of other are even stronger.
btw - is there a statute of limitations on the NYT issuing a retraction and/or apology? Just asking….
April 21, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Hey Tamarika,
Apparently your buddy Billy Ayers doesn’t give a shit about the lack of personal freedoms suffered by the people of what was South Vietnam not to mention the murder and re-education camps set up by the communists. Wake up, you dolt!!
April 21, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Dear Mr. Ayers,
Thank you for posting this. I respect your courage in opening yourself up to the usual anonymous bashing.
We bomb masses of civilians to save OURSELVES. What we mean when we say we must use war to stop war is that we, our children, our mother and father, our dog deserve to live but they and theirs don’t.
A few posters here justify killing masses of people to save masses of other people and give them “freedom.” In this scenario, mass murder is actually an act of compassion. At least the hijackers proclaimed no such lofty purpose.
I had hoped that if there were anything good to come out of the horror of 9/11, it would be that for once, America could begin to imagine what it is like, viscerally, to be blown up. In great numbers. Suddenly. Out of the blue. As is always the case, death is not instantaneous. And the suffering of survivors is another toll, not necessarily a better fate.
Whether Islamic hijackers bring you your 9/11 morning because they hate you, or the United States brings it in order to save you, your suffering is the same. From a civilian standpoint, none of us who have always lived in America can fully imagine a 9/11 morning multiplied by thousands and thousands of WTC explosions, going on day and night, for five years. We can not imagine that world. Or the added horrors when water supplies, hospitals, whole infrastructures are destroyed, the environment is poisoned, and we watch another million or so of our own die, or worse, from that. It is also probably no comfort to be be raped and murdered and watch your elderly grandfather be shot by those who are trying to bring you freedom.
If you can even begin to imagine the condition of war for masses of civilians, you would probably conclude that no reason is sufficient for it.
Now if you believe that these OTHER civilian are not as HUMAN as we are… that’ll make it work.
If I could have not been born, my own beloved child not born, in order that Hiroshima and Nagasaki not be bombed, I would make that happen. I do not think that all the war, the destruction of this earth and its wildlife, the endless cruelty to each other, the abuse of animals and children and old people–all this “humanity” –was worth bringing into existence at the cost of wreaking nuclear holocaust on Japan. And next time we have to stop war by dropping the atom bomb, I would rather take a cyanide pill, thank you.
To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Ayers is not responsible for the death of one civilian. He has paid his dues, is still paying them as evidenced here.
He and his wife have lived a life of service to others. They have more than “made up” for the past. They are educators, in the business of saving children, of bettering their lives so they can grow up and better the world. They take this mission on actively and pass it to others.
By the way, did most Vietnamese–the ones who survived and were not too sick or psychologically damaged to enjoy it–get that “personal freedom?” They got the communists. And they got their destroyed land. We lost over 58,200 young people and got agent orange. Let’s not go into the wounded, the paralyzed, the amputated, the mentally altered for life…. and their children. War is not one morning in one’s life. It goes on and on.
If you can justify this, fine. But if you can, you have no right to shake your finger at Mr. Ayers.
Virginia Elliott
April 21, 2008 at 8:48 pm
“The
lessons of the anti-war movements of the 1960s and 70s may be more
urgent now than ever”
Right!
And the lesson was that arrogant uneducated privileged narcissists whose knowledge consists of one-liners can yet have enormous effects on a population that is asleep.
How many millions of East Asians are dead because you, your gaggle of demented twits, the media, and leftist congressmen pulled us out of Nam, allowing Pol Pot to come in.
Anyone who was around at the time, Willy, knows the story.
Keep it up.
The more bullshit you pump out, the more the new media will reveal about you.
One day the bill will come due.
April 22, 2008 at 1:54 am
jack, you can’t possibly think bill doesn’t care about the deaths of the south vietnamese after writing so eloquently on the loss of a single life. this is a guy who dedicated much of his life to trying to END violence, which i’m sure is more than you have personally attempted. and if you are claiming that killing people isn’t justified for saving lives, than why is your vitriol directed at bill exclusively? what about the american government which has murdered OVER 1,000,000 people in iraq in the last ten years in the name of “peace” and “democracy”.
hypocrisy is a necessary step on the path of self-improvement, just try to get to the next step, please.
April 22, 2008 at 2:36 am
Nice try Jimmie, but Billy seems to have a very hard time condemning any violent or aggressive actions initiated by a Marxist government anywhere at any time.
Oh BTW, if you bud Saddam had just adhered to the 16 UN resolutions, there would not have been an Operation Iraqi Freedom. Got it, Jimmie?????
April 22, 2008 at 9:25 am
Jack, why don’t we start condemning the Marxism right here in America and our country’s own aggressive actions?
You see the height of hypocrisy in America when Hillary Clinton doesn’t reject and denounce an endorsement from OJ Simpson, while asking Obama to reject an unsought endorsement from Farakhan - a man whom her supporter, Gov. Ed Rendel showered with probably the most eloquent praise yet. Or when Hillary says she believes in redemption of people, referring specifically to her acceptance of a Richard Mellon Scaiffe’s endorsement, but somehow implies that Ayers should be a persona-non-grata, despite his work on anti-poverty, social justice, urban educational reform, Early Childhood Education and helping children in trouble with the law.
This country has the smartest and the dumbest people on earth. And some of you commenting on this blog are among the dumbest. You just don’t know it.
April 22, 2008 at 11:33 am
You should be in prison right now you terrorist piece of shit. Nothing you do will ever wipe the stain away from your life of what you did. You make me sick.
April 22, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Because what this country is practicing is not “marxism”, Sarah Jane, which is a set of political ideas that are as far from anything being practiced in this country as capitalism is from democracy.
As for Jack, like all righties, he wants to ignore the devastation this country continues to inflict on poorer countries of the world, allegedly for their own good. It was recovery from one such war that led to the excesses of the North Vietnamese, and nothing Jack and his “Black Book of Communism” groupies can say will ever prove anything to the contrary. Their ideas remain locked in exactly where they were five hundred years ago, at the rosy dawn of their capitalist utopia. Kill and kill and kill is their final recourse, and then they wonder why the world can’t escape a basic law of political physics, that for every ignorant action, there is an equally opposite ignorant reaction. Let’s not even get to talking about the horrifying penury which capital insists on inflicting on all of the world’s poor, allegedly for their better character and productive development. No one who ever really knew destitution would lend any credibility to the sort of insanity that insists that it’s good for people. All poverty ever did for anyone was make us mean and self-centered. Jack is a real nowhere man, sitting in his nowhere land, etc. His idealization of the South Vietnamese is ignorant of the actual history of that country, and stupid beyond measure.
As one son in a long line of veterans, I have had it with righties who carry on about communism or any other effort humanity has made to pull itself out from the mess and backwardness capitalism insists are so good for human character. I am even more tired of their war on the planet and all of humanity on behalf of the fucking dollar. If they went extinct tomorrow, no one would miss them. Their theory is lunacy, and almost anyone who’s paying three dollars a dozen for eggs in the last week knows what I’m talking about. According to the capitalist utopia, now that market dereg is handing them the most dynamic profit level they’ve seen in generations, prices should be going down. Instead they’re taking advantage, as always. Fuck those motherfuckers and the cabbage they rode in on.
As for Billy Ayers, he maybe did the wrong thing for the right reasons, and that’s the end of it so far as I’m concerned. Jack’s effort to hold him responsible for what the stalinists of North Vietnam did is nothing more than product out the back end of the bovine, and about half as smart.
April 22, 2008 at 4:35 pm
“You see the height of hypocrisy in America when Hillary Clinton doesn’t reject…”
This isn’t about Hillary Clinton. The American people already know the hypocrisy of the Clintons, but Ayers is an Obama buddy.
“Or when Hillary says she believes in redemption of people, referring specifically to her acceptance of a Richard Mellon Scaiffe’s endorsement, but somehow implies that Ayers should be a persona-non-grata, despite his work on anti-poverty, social justice, urban educational reform, Early Childhood Education and helping children in trouble with the law.”
You know who was a great friend to the poor in Chicago? Someone who opened up soup kitchens and convinced the powers-that-be of the time to start putting dates on milk so that spoiled milk wouldn’t be sold to children. Guess who that was? None other than “Scarface” Al Capone. My comparison of a vicious, murderous gangster like Capone with a commie thug terrorist like Ayers is valid. I don’t get how people who believe in the false premise of so-called “social justice” somehow negates Ayers’ unrepentant criminality. Not only should Ayers be “persona-non-grata”, he should be in prison. Prison got Capone out of Chicago.
“This country has the smartest and the dumbest people on earth. And some of you commenting on this blog are among the dumbest. You just don’t know it.”
Apparently you don’t know you are one of the dumbest either.
April 22, 2008 at 6:08 pm
The divisiveness today about the US war in Vietnam seems more bitter than it was then. The hatred in some of the comments above shows we have a long ways to go toward healing the minds so wounded by decades of right wing propaganda.
Thank you for your work then and now. I didn’t do enough to help end it, and nothing I’ve been able to do since the executive branch’s declaration of a so-called War on Terror has been sufficient either. But I am heartened by the principled, honest work you do, and the bravery that allows you to stand up and speak out on historical and contemporary injustice.
April 22, 2008 at 7:59 pm
My peers would agree. Mr. Ayers is one of the most compassionate and supportive professors we have encountered. Collaboratively, the class creates a strong learning environment designed around an enlightening, yet objective, curriculum. Versatile among all levels of schooling, we pedagogically challenge our own perceived notions of Education and learning. We are exposed to a diverse array of literature that we will continue to reflect upon and refer to for the rest of our lives, both scholastically and intimately. His uplifting spirit and composure amidst this nonsense is admirable. This can only be achieved through a lifetime of self-reflection and progressiveness. Regardless of the ignorant statements and construed misconceptions, I am confident that these flagrancies will not faze him.
April 23, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Hey Adam, the “professor” you claim to admire PLANTED BOMBS IN THE 70’s!!!!!!!! WTF is wrong with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get your head out of your @ss!!!!
April 23, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Mr. Ayers,
I read and appreciated this response to the NYT, but I am still curious… I saw nothing in that response that indicated remorse for any of the bombings (New York City Police Headquarters, US Capitol building , Pentagon). I understand your exasperation with the US policies during the Vietnam era, but I myself am exasperated by the misdirection in your response to the NYT.
Point blank: Do you regret setting those bombs? Do you think that violence was an approriate recourse in that specific place and time?
April 23, 2008 at 9:03 pm
If you are so pro life Mr. Ayers, then I’d like to see you stand up for the truly innocent in our society and denounce Abortions. Oh, but you won’t you can’t. To you and the rest of the liberals out there killing unwanted babies is justified. Like population control. I guess you could say your “Green”
April 24, 2008 at 1:27 am
Adam, if Distinguished Professor Ayers was really interested “a strong learning environment”, he would not be censoring work by academics he doesn’t happen to fancy. I posted a comment in this thread earlier that referred to a piece written by this guy: http://www.iwp.edu/faculty/facultyID.22/profile.asp and Ayers refuses to let that comment of mine apppear in this thread. Never mind that my comment accuses Ayers of nothing and instead merely asks for a comment about what Dr Harmon wrote. Apparently Distinguished Professor Ayers is all for free speech for scholars… so long as he likes it.
April 24, 2008 at 1:43 am
In an age of fraying empire, it is not surprising at all that new and shrill forms of McCarthyism and fear mongering arise. Bill, thanks for your continued work and mature discourse in these times.
April 24, 2008 at 1:49 am
Jack,
The bombs American planted on the country of Vietnam—the entire country, we weren’t defending the South, but bombing the crap out of it— are the real crime. We did not belong in Vietnam; the entire effort was a criminal assault and U.S. leaders responsible should have been prosecuted for war crimes.
And before you attack me and atribute outrageous and ridiculous associations and beliefs to me—I categorically reject them all, and your distasteful tone in your writing.
April 24, 2008 at 1:56 am
People,
please,
open your eyes.
Then tell me,
where is this freedom? (especially when you think it “anti-american” for someone to FREEly express their thoughts)
How is our current system not bound to fail as all past systems have?
Why sell your soul to it when it will change?
Also, how did this country come into existance?
Even my cheap public school education taught me that it was through revolution of some sort. “Democracy” rose after the fall of “monarchy.” Capitalism rose out of the ashes of feudalism. Something will rise out of both “democracy” and capitalism in the future, and from the current state of both these systems I doubt it will be too long( no, in no way am I a communist, I do not think that is what will come next, or what should come next.)
I’m not a terrorist. Nor or any others who want change. If I am a terrorist, if Bill Ayers is a terrorist, MLK a terrorist, or any other person who simply wanted to better this country and world, then your beloved founding fathers would be considered terrorists as well.
That’s all.
PS; Jack - this government you love plants bombs every day, I would bet every hour. Oh, they planted quite a few back in the 70’s as well. The point is, Bill doesn’t plant bombs now, but this government does. They also have the intent of killing people. The Weathermen didn’t have that intent.
April 24, 2008 at 3:34 am
Jack,
You came to this blog with your mind made up. There is nothing that Mr Ayers could have written which would have convinced you that he is not the evil personified which you believe him to be. What is the source of your certainty? Have you studied the Weather Underground? Are you familiar with the decades of work that he has done since then? Do you have personal experience of the man or his actions?
Your comment of 1:59pm, April 23, implies that there is no acceptable moral reason for violence (since we should not respect or listen to a man who planted bombs in the 70s). On the other hand, your criticism of him for opposing the Vietnam War suggests that you think that that conflict was justified. Consider the possibility for a moment that both his violence and that of America’s military were justified (or both unjustified).
I look forward to your response.
April 24, 2008 at 4:01 am
Mr. Ayers, here’s a very simple question:
Do you regret using violence (or supporting the use of violence) in opposition to the War in Vietnam?
April 24, 2008 at 12:05 pm
What are you talking about? We, the USA, makes mistakes, we have, and always will. You sir, are a hypocrite. A lousy terrorist criminal who hides behind education. One who did not even have the GUTS to stand up. Like a little coward you run and hide. You are scum. Hope you burn in hell.
April 24, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Thank you, Mr. Ayers, for proving that conception is possible via the nether orifice. I don’t blame you for the man you are but your father and mother are not to be excused.
April 24, 2008 at 3:44 pm
The ramblings of Mr. Ayers are just additional proof that even a pinhead like him can acquire an advanced degree…
I was in college in the ’60’s and saw some of these folks up close and it always struck me as interesting that many, like Bill Ayers, were the children of privilege. Who else had the free time and funds to play at being revolutionaries? I was too busy going to school, studying and working for such nonsense.
He apparently still holds the same faux-revolutionary, 1960’s-era, fuzzy-headed views.
Go figure…
April 24, 2008 at 7:26 pm
I’m glad to hear your side of the story, Mr. Ayers, just as I’m glad that Rev. Jeremiah Wright is being interviewed by Bill Moyers on PBS this Friday night. I’m totally amazed by the unresolved emotional issues still holding over from the 60’s and 70’s, but I feel it is good that they are brought to light again. We have another chance to make things right, yes?
(pssst . . . maybe clean up the line breaks in this post of yours. plz.)
April 24, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Liberal morons,
Marxism is dead. Your “boy”, the Commie terrorist Ayers, would kill you and any other American for the death sentence that is Marxism, and wouldn’t bat an eye to do it. He wanted to do it before, and never was sorry for his terrorist actions. He belongs with the whore Diana Oughton (his squeeze at the time). By a quirk of fate, he is a “professor” at a state-run university, with a salary paid by my taxes. Because he is an unrepentant America-hating terrorist, my tax dollars would be better spent supporting his sorry ass in prison.
John Whitelaw, do you have the same respect for Al Capone as you do for the Commie terrorist? After all, Capone opened up soup kitchens for the poor, and was instrumental in getting milk dated so that it wouldn’t be spoiled before it was sold. Does that make Capone a “champion” of the false notion of “social justice”? Or would you still consider Capone as nothing more than the murderous thug he was, doing these kinds of things to get good PR? As far as I’m concerned, that’s what Ayers is; an America-hating murderous Communist thug trying to get good PR to cover up for his past terrorism, criminal acts he has never apologized for.
April 25, 2008 at 12:11 am
Mr Ayers
Your justification is self-serving and disingenuous. You object to others drawing attention to a narrative that you authored. Your deeds, your words mark you as a terrorist and a coward. It is because of the clemency of the American people and the protections of the U.S. Constitution (that you worked to subvert through acts of criminal violence) that you are at liberty to profess your wicked, hateful ideology. This is ironic and a rare, genuine example of a communist maximizing the contradictions of bourgeois society.
April 25, 2008 at 12:19 am
Sorry, but it makes no sense. If I hated a country as bad as this man does I would be damned if I would live there. If you detest a country why would you live there? It is a shame that American men & Women have actually died to defend people with this attitude. I believe everyone has a right to their opinion but I also support your right to get the hell out of my country.
April 25, 2008 at 12:22 am
And for the record evil has nothing to do with it. I notice that while he has slammed this country & blown it up & acted the general fool-he has damn sure taken advantage of it. If he had done the same acts in any other country in the world he would be in prison or given death penalty instead of rewarded.
April 25, 2008 at 1:32 am
I love how people against war make war.. Idiot.
millions died when we pulled out of vietnam.. I just got back from there and they call it the dark ages for the last 30 years. Thanks to idiots like Ayers millions more died and suffered.
This is what happens when idiots have a voice, way to kill more people ayers if you advocate pulling out of vietnam they you are responcible for what happen after.
Hate dumb people.. and now he teaches.
April 25, 2008 at 2:02 am
About 40 years ago I got on a plane at JFK and headed for France because I could not participate in an unjust, immoral and illegal war. I had many options but for me exile was the most appropriate. I did not think the goverment should be able to imprison me for refusing to fight in a war I could not support. Six years later, after Nixon resigned, I was able to return to the US as part of the pardon deal arranged by Ford. Now it seems we are knee high in the big muddy again, only this time with a volunteer army. That army however is at its breaking point. Hopefully a new President will be able to end this new American nightmare.
It will be unfortunate if the past is dredged up and used to manipulate public opinion in this election. Hopefully those affected will be mainly akin to the ranters who have commented above with their distortions and hysteria. However, I am frustrated by the politics of expediency I see all too often because it does not let me trust the candidates to follow through on their promises to withdraw the troops.
While in Paris I was invited to a gathering that was organized by Vietnamese patriots supporting their country against aggression. I saw one skit that showed young men and women preparing to go south to fight the Americans. I will never forget the intensity of their patriotism and commitment to a cause. I do regret that I did not and do not appear to have the same moral courage.
April 25, 2008 at 2:44 am
Hey SteveIL,
Well said my friend. Well said. Ayers will burn in hell some day. Justice will be done.
April 25, 2008 at 4:05 am
SteveIL,
You are full of contempt for everyone who appears to disagree with you, but you are long on hate and spite but short on reasoned argument. Saying that Mr Ayers is a Communist does not make it so. Saying he is an unrepentant terrorist doesn’t make that true either. What is your response to Jessica’s statement that the Weathermen were not trying to kill people with the bombs they set? How does that attempt to minimize collateral damage on their part compare to the US military’s attempts to do so in Iraq (on a moral level, I mean)?
Al Capone’s actions are a straw man in this discussion. Capone’s business was personal enrichment. If he did some incidental good in order to massage his image, then that’s nice, but it has no bearing on Mr Ayers, since Ayers, however foolish/extreme his tactics might have been, was trying to do something good: get America out of what he (and millions of other patriotic Americans, by the way) saw as an evil war. You might not agree with their assessment of the Vietnam war, but you are not the sole bearer of truth and understanding, and a little respect for free people’s right to disagree with their government is in order.
Why don’t you present a coherent explanation of exactly what is false about the notion of “social justice”? Once again, just saying it doesn’t make it so, and the readers here are not the Rush Limbaugh audience, so they expect a little more.
It is a strange view of the world that a man who has spent the bulk of his life working to improve public education in America is a “America-hating” individual. Perhaps you’d like to explain your definition of America which apparently does not include schoolchildren?
If we’re going to get into a discussion of where our tax dollars are going, I might mention that I find it disgraceful that my tax dollars are going to torturing people. I would say that as far as un-american behaviour goes, taking people who are your prisoners, over whom you have complete control, and inflicting pain on them until they tell you what you want to hear is right at the top of the list.
Shall I mention a few other things which I find not to be in keeping with the promise of America? How about an executive which refuses to obey the laws made by congress? How about a President who lies to the people of America to take them into a war of choice? How about the millions of dollars which we are paying Halliburton to do a bad job of providing support to our soldiers in that war? How about the abandonment of the people of New Orleans when disaster struck? How about the fact that now, almost THREE YEARS later, people are still living in FEMA trailers because the government and people of america care so damn little about poor black people that they won’t do anything to help them rebuild? How about the fact that this President said “Not on my watch” about the genocide in Rwanda when he learned about it, but then when the time came for him to do something about Darfur, he’s been all half-measures?
Oh yeah, and I’m sure there are some college professors who get some of their income from my taxes whose opinions I disagree with, too.
April 25, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Hey Whitelaw,
What the f*ck are you talking about!!! Billy IS an unrepentant terrorist. He friggin’ said so himself!!!!!!!!!! Clean your ears out. So he had plan to kill anyone with the bombs he planted??? There was no guarantee that no one would be hurt or killed when those explosives went off.
Billy Ayers was a dirtbag and still is a dirtbag. He will rot in hell.
April 25, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Janski, you’re here tooting your bazoo because your rightie friends don’t pay any attention toyou at their websites. We’re getting tired of changing your diapers, boy.
April 25, 2008 at 2:03 pm
John Whitelaw said, “Saying that Mr Ayers is a Communist does not make it so. Saying he is an unrepentant terrorist doesn’t make that true either.”
But both statements are true, aren’t they? Ayers is a Communist, and an unrepentant terrorist.
“What is your response to Jessica’s statement that the Weathermen were not trying to kill people with the bombs they set? How does that attempt to minimize collateral damage on their part compare to the US military’s attempts to do so in Iraq (on a moral level, I mean)?”
I say bull. I don’t buy it for a minute. When in the sick history of Communism have Communists cared about who they killed, or the number of people they killed? By comparison, the actions of the U.S. military have been exemplary in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. But guess what, we’re in a war with a rotten enemy, Islamist terrorists, with members who embrace the same violent bent as the Communist terrorists in the Weathermen. Besides, Ayers idea of terrorism was Sherman’s March. Either he’s trying to divert attention from his own terrorism and created this falsehood, or he’s a complete idiot. Arguments can be made for both.
“Al Capone’s actions are a straw man in this discussion. Capone’s business was personal enrichment.
No, Capone’s actions are precisely to the point. Liberal apologists for Islamist terrorists in Hezbollah and Hamas talk about the false idea that these groups, despite being made up of terrorists, provide beneficial “services” for “the people”. It’s a crock of crap. Yet, it is just an extension of what the liberal apologists said about Communist terrorists 40 years ago. What do members of these groups join for? Personal enrichment. Communists, and those members of the Islamist terrorist groups, join because they seize an opportunity to better their position by screwing their own people. Considering how many of their own they murder in order to accomplish this, what does that really make them? They are no better than Capone. Ayers sought the same as any other Communist, and he had less of an excuse than Capone, with Ayers having grown up in privilege.
“…since Ayers, however foolish/extreme his tactics might have been, was trying to do something good: get America out of what he (and millions of other patriotic Americans, by the way) saw as an evil war.”
Yeah, the famous excuse of liberals and the mothers of criminals. You know what really got the U.S. out of Vietnam? Nixon bombing the crap out of North Vietnam, enough to get the Communists to decide to call for a truce. As it turns out, the Communists were in the process of double-crossing everybody and did so in 1975. Tell me now how democratic Vietnam is today.
“It is a strange view of the world that a man who has spent the bulk of his life working to improve public education in America is a “America-hating” individual.”
Both my parents were public school teachers (Mom passed away, Dad retired). Mom got out of it because she couldn’t stand the coddling of the bad behavior of children (she didn’t coddle my bad behavior) that is the hallmark of today’s “progressive” educational standard; Dad had more patience and stuck with it, but was of the same opinion about public education. Public education has gotten worse, with the expansion of phony progressive thought turning our children into being less able to be competitive as adults. How is what Ayers teaches an improvement? Have you actually seen what is going on in Chicago lately? Liberal politics in action; a disaster.
If Ayers were all that concerned about public education, how come he doesn’t mention the detrimental effects unions have on public school systems? How come he doesn’t talk about how tax dollars are being used to teach cock-eyed theories instead of the basics? How come he doesn’t mention the positive aspects of being ethically competitive in order to get ahead in the world? And how come he doesn’t talk about the history of this country, warts and all (yes, I’m of the opinion that even the U.S. wasn’t perfect), without resorting to twisting that history from a Marxist point of view?
By the way, what the hell are you talking about? “How about the fact that this President said “Not on my watch” about the genocide in Rwanda when he learned about it, but then when the time came for him to do something about Darfur, he’s been all half-measures?”
If I remember correctly, the genocide in Rwanda happened during Clinton’s watch. As far as Darfur, what would you do? I know what I would do if I were President, and it would be constructive, but it probably wouldn’t measure up to your false standards, which would allow the genocide to continue.
April 25, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Jack, you are a real asshat. Either one of two things is true about you: 1, you served in Vietnam in the mess hall and are spending the rest of your life talking tough about being a vet, or 2, you never served at all and your total experience with mortal violence comes from watching television.
April 25, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Jon Janski and SteveIL.
Man, I gotta say it…you show such intelligence.
Vulgar, crude, vile personal attacks.
Total Lack of reason, or evidence in support of your claims.
When faced with facts and reason, you retort. “STFU”
Ah, such reason, such restraint, such elegance.
Where can I learn such eloquence?
/snark
Anyone who would heed such vapid, disgusting posts certainly doesn’t come with much in the way of intelligence, thought, reason or insight.
Cheers
-Greg
April 25, 2008 at 4:39 pm
I didn’t realize how many ignorant people there were in the world until I retired from the US Army, yes I am a Vietnam Veteran, and started teaching high school. The Education Establishment lives in a different world of theories about how life should be. Mr Ayers is nothing but a physical and moral coward that is sucking his living off of a bunch of elite ninnyhammers that think they know better than anyone else about how to shape society. After all, they have written one thesis after another on the subject and if we little people would just listen everything would be hunky dory. The truth is they are a bunch of leftist facists that would open re-education for the unwashed masses in order to bring them into their ideal of utopia. Mr. Ayers never faced another human in combat, he did his dirty deeds at night and ran off so as not to get caught. Takes real courage to do that. I hope he rots in hell for his crimes against humanity with his facist leftist crap he peddles for a living.
April 25, 2008 at 4:50 pm
SteveL.
Your passion is certainly admirable, but you have been poorly served by both your educationand your news media. Much of your world view rests on falsehoods that are easily debunked with a little reading.
I am always interested in hearing the veiws of those on the right. I hope you’ll keep listening to those of us on the left, and maybe do some light reading on your own country’s history. Any fair reading of American foreign policy over the last 60 has got to give one considerable pause.
And yes, it’s possible for me without any trouble to hate the action the American government has taken in our name, and to love the country that bore me. One of the things that makes that possible is my faith that most Americans share most values. The difference is a large portion of Americans have been deceived into a worldview in which America does no wrong, which simply isn’t accurate.
April 25, 2008 at 5:36 pm
I am much more afraid of the right wing vitriol spewed by some posters here than any communist ’straw men’.
I guess JJ, etc, would be perfectly OK with bombing abortion clinics and the Olympic Games, since these were initiated by ultra-right extremists.
I guess you red-state rednecks would agree that “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - that is, as long as it is YOUR version of liberty and justice.
April 25, 2008 at 6:18 pm
“How about an executive which refuses to obey the laws made by congress?”
Which ones?
“How about a President who lies to the people of America to take them into a war of choice?”
Still peddling that pathetic lie?
April 25, 2008 at 6:44 pm
“How about the abandonment of the people of New Orleans when disaster struck? How about the fact that now, almost THREE YEARS later, people are still living in FEMA trailers because the government and people of america care so damn little about poor black people that they won’t do anything to help them rebuild?”
You know what, that’s another bald-faced lie from the liberals. Liberal Democrats have run New Orleans and Louisiana into the ground as it was up to them to protect themselves. Yet, it is liberals who keep blacks poor in order blame others, using this blame to keep getting re-elected. Answer me why the liberals haven’t recovered their own city yet? Of course, the answer is that liberals want more government to keep these people poor and dependent, It is so obvious. Yeah, it is heartbreaking that the liberal New Orleans politicians choose to screw their own people to maintain power.
“Oh yeah, and I’m sure there are some college professors who get some of their income from my taxes whose opinions I disagree with, too.”
Any of them terrorists? Doubtful.
And now I will use take from the Al Gore school of debate to comment on liberal policies. There is no more debate on this, liberal policies are abject failures and giving the various levels of government more power over the citizens, in opposition to what the U.S. Constitution stands for. Liberal policies on hate speech are destroying the 1st Amendment, giving the vast majority of people less rights to say what they want. Liberal policies are destroying the 2nd Amendment by lying to the people that the government will defend them (every American city run by liberals has massive gang problems; liberals “solve” the problem by taking away the peoples’ abilities to defend themselves, and coddling the gangs). Liberal policies are destroying the 4th Amendment (and I don’t mean the terrorist surveillance program, which is entirely constitutional). Liberal policies are destroying the 5th Amendment; see the Kelo decision.
And finally, liberal policies are making a mockery of Article I. It’s bad enough members of Congress are able to steer contracts to family and friends in regards to appropriations for defense and federal law enforcement (those items that are priority one of any government). Now, the government is competing with the private sector for health care and education, and the same appropriations problems are expanded. The government is competing with charities in helping out the poor, with the charities losing. And now, the federal government is getting too far into the energy industry, again to steer contracts to buddies like Al Gore.
Face it, what you would call liberal policies is a complete failure, and isn’t really liberal at all since all of these policies are old and past their prime. Ayers wanted to violently foist these Marxist (let’s call them what they really are) policies down the throats of America, killing anyone who stood in his way. He may now be a “teacher”, but what lessons should we learn? That he is false, what he believes is false, and that the idea of progressive policy and liberalism is nothing more than Marxism with pleasant face. Forget it. I’m not falling for it. And anybody who believes a terrorist like Ayers is a loser.
April 25, 2008 at 10:15 pm
This is beyond ridiculous. To begin with, Ayers is being quoted out of context to fit whatever argument a right-wing pundit is trying to make. It happened nearly seven years ago and it’s happening now. People who are basically devolving to the level of name-calling conveniently forget that, after three members of the WUO were killed when a bomb short-circuited during assembly, the WUO adopted a “no casualties” policy when planting an explosive device. One cannot say the same for the authorities on the local, state and federal level. Those men were all too happy to kill anyone and destroy anything that got between them and their goals. As for the “We didn’t do enough” comment, so what? It’s obvious that ALL of the anti-Vietnam War organizations didn’t do enough to end the war, with the exception of curbing the covert (and illegal) invasions of Cambodia and Laos. In case you forget, the war ground on until 1975, well after the WUO had begun to draw to a close. Finally, Ayers’ “Marxism/Socialism”: SOMETHING had to be done differently, as the status quo was producing millions of dead Vietnamese and tens of thousands of dead Americans (take note of the huge disparity in numbers there). The politics of the New Left as it existed in the 1960s and early ’70s were a natural progression from the left as it existed from the 1930s until the early ’50s. FYI, pure “Marxism” or “Communism” has never really been tried as a system of government. Power-hungry members of revolutionary parties in the past have always seized on the stage of the dictatorship of the revolutionary council (my own phrase) and failed to hand over power to the proletariat. However, a characteristic of the major New Left organizations was a lack of desire to hold power. No-one, from the SDS to the Black Panthers to the AIM wanted to establish a political dictatorship of any kind. This applies most of all to the WUO. These groups, judged on their words and actions, genuinely wished to establish a better society that would benefit all within it, not just those who could afford better treatment due to the color of their skin or the size of their trust fund. So think about it, do some research, and then come back and make your anti-liberal argument from a base of reasoned opinion rather than what you’ve heard on Fox News Network.
April 25, 2008 at 10:46 pm
My God, Ayers, you are STILL being duped by the one-sided so-called moral outrage of the left? Didn’t it ever strike you how they condemn American, and ONLY American crimes both real and imagined? People like you who go along with that obvious con are called “useful idiots.” Likewise, where is their outrage about the crimes of the Marxists? Likewise, where is the outrage from the so-called “antiracists” about the massive number of racially-motivated prison rapes against whites, the anti-white slurs common in rap music or the disproportionate amount of black-on-white violence in DOJ crime statistics? When did the “antiracist” lobby ever converge when a white person is a victim of racial attacks and/or discrimination? Where were they to defend the Duke 5 against false charges and railroading by the DA? NOWHERE… So much for “antiracism.” But of course, those of you on the left are so brainwashed by decades of white-guilt propaganda that these either never struck you or you excuse them away with white-guilt group condemnations while berating us all to judge others as individuals. The glaring moral inconsistencies prove that this leftist “outrage” has nothing to do with true morality or any sense of justice. Its all a lie. This is all nothing short of anti-American subversion cooked up by the left which originated with the Marxist thinkers that produced Critical Theory. Are you foolish as to follow the worldview that inspired the Soviet Union?! Leftist brainwashing obviously forms the worldview from which your perceptions of things around you are formed, and therein is the flaw. I discovered and discarded that mistake in my early 30s, and you seem to be still immersed in it. Its like a cult, and its god is Political Correctness. You’ve apparently been acting like a brainwashed automaton since before I was in utero. If you really think that white Americans are a problem, then do us all a favor and be the first to pitch yourself off a cliff. Im sure your choice of the WordPress theme “Contempt” is no accident. Must suck being you.
April 25, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Lol, there are simply people in the world who will always believe that, no matter what any government does, it is simply unthinkable to stand up that government. Bill Ayres, the Weather Underground, guys who burned their draft cards, etc., along with college students who protested, all variously broke the law, engaged in civil disobedience in that time. Anyone who was not there will not be able to understand the extent to which the country was torn apart by that illegal war and the 50,000 American lives it tore apart.
Educated young folk read enough and knew enough to know the war was immoral and based on shaky justifications. Robert McNamara talks about this in his Fog of War. If you go back and read The Ugly American, you can see that, well before the war began to escalate, plenty of people would understand how we managed to get into it. Ayres and others were part of a generalized need to protest and stand up to the illegal and immoral actions of the government, particularly given that those same young people were being drafted and sent to kill the people of Vietnam.
The bigger point is, condemning Bill Ayres for his actions of 40 years ago is a tip-off to what kind of people are posting those comments. It wouldn’t matter what Ayres had done, nor under what circumstances - the message from the anti-Ayres’ folks is, “the government is always right, and ordinary citizens are never allowed to challenge the government’s actions, nor to call attention to any mistakes, nor blunders, nor any mishandling of any situation. The government is perfect and must never be questioned. A person who questions past or current actions is anti-American, and probably a Communist.” It is pointless to argue with this mentality.
April 26, 2008 at 12:42 am
I do believe you’re getting railroaded and libeled by the media–to a quite outrageous degree–and I think Dinitia Smith’s piece from the 9/11 NYT is a slam-job–it oozes contempt, insinuation, mockery. But the quote she begins with, “I don’t regret setting bombs…” –I’m willing to put those five words into a variety of ameliorating contexts, but it’s still not clear to me whether or not you actually said that. So, while I believe she shuffled around other quotes to make you seem still violence prone, you haven’t outright disclaimed that one. Can you illuminate?
April 26, 2008 at 2:38 am
I see that the leftist fascists cannot stand a Vietnam Vetran posting on here. Well I still say Mr. Ayers is a physical and moral coward. What he did in the 60’s was not honorable, but cowardly. I have more respect for the draft dodgers that went to jail on principal than a puny minded terrorist that slithered around in the dead of night planting bombs. And now is an honored professor? He should have attended confession when the Pope visited. If Mr. Ayers had his way he would have all of us simple minded people put in concentration camps for re-education. There is no difference between him and the Nazis and Fascists that supposedly had all the answers to societies problems. One day he will face a judge that will do the right thing in judging his life.
April 26, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Bill Ayers -
Your book is out of print! Woe is me. I can buy it used easy enough, but that won’t do you any good personally. Or, you put the whole thing online for free and avoid the transportation impact. This is the 21st Century. I understand that if you read the book backwards there are some secret messages.
April 26, 2008 at 6:09 pm
I know this won’t make it out of moderation, but if you happen to see this Mr. Ayers, please note that it is extremely unfortunate that some people never get what they deserve. I only wish you had been with your bumbling buddy when the bomb he intended for who knows how many innocent victims took his own life. One less violent “peace loving” communist in the world, what a shame… the shame being it wasn’t two or more.
April 26, 2008 at 9:35 pm
I’m a leftist-radical. I’m not communist. I’m an American and future teacher. I support Bill Ayers. I had an opportunity to meet him in the past through a family member. It was an honor. Many of the ignorant commenters should really dig into his work before judging him. Take a class, or attend one of his lectures, but come prepared. He’s a guy that knows what is going on in this nation and on a global aspect.
It’s okay though, obviously those against you would rather label you a terrorist than get the actual terrorist who helped plan 911, Mr. President Bush out of office and complain you’re a horrible evil person.
He’s one guy, he turned his life around, and is now an icon for what he accomplished in the past/present. If you want to hate him go right ahead, but it’s safe to say he made a difference in my life.
April 27, 2008 at 2:45 am
Bill, thank you for your post. I have to admit that I wonder why the NY Times didn’t publish your entire letter. I guess they were still into giving only inaccurate info about you.
I’m old enough to remember the Weathermen and what the “cause” of the group was. Frankly, I didn’t agree with the group’s ideas of bombing anything, though I was very glad that warning was given ahead of time so that no one was hurt. But, accidents happen, as you know all too well, and that was always what I worried about.
I remember the Vietnam War years. That entire era was one of such socio-political upheaval all over the planet, while at the same time the US and the USSR were engaged in the “Cold War”. Vietnam really was a victim surrogate in the “Cold War” struggle between the US, USSR and China. Such an awful tragedy so many Vietnamese and American lives ended horribly and so many left permanently scarred inside and out.
That the involvement of the US in Vietnam was and is still such a divisive subject speaks highly to the immensity of that conflict.
In addition, for those who are younger than we are, there is clearly a lack of clear understanding about the socio-political upheavals of the 1960’s and early 1970’s. Those upheavals were so powerful that they still impact us today in that the right so moved to stop the changes that they ultimately were able to get Bush # 2 into the presidency.
I am hopeful that we can move past all of that and go on into a new era. It certainly seems that you have been able to that in your own life. Kudos to you.
April 27, 2008 at 2:49 am
Hey Timmy,
You are defending a domestic terrorist asshole in Billy Ayers. Get your head out of your ass.
April 28, 2008 at 2:40 am
A week ago, the mention of William Ayers name would’ve elicited a blank reaction from those on this site who criticize him. Now he’s a domestic terrorist asshole.
Ollie North was a terrorist collaborator who somehow joined the mainstream but his past is acceptable by some because he was doing it behind our backs from the White House basement.
April 28, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Amazing—maybe not so amazing—how the “Friends of Willy” either make shit up or just plain don’t know shit.
April 30, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Stop it, Tony! STOP IT! Stop bringing up true statements.
Yes, Ayers was a terrorist, but, if I am to believe the US is truly a Christian nation, shouldn’t there be more forgiveness for this guy? Or is this all just an “eye for an eye” thing?
He served his time and he’s not bombing things anymore. Isn’t that what prison is for? And if you don’t agree with the rulings of the judges who sentenced him, go create your own dictatorship. You’ll probably feel much better putting people to death without a fair trial, and being able to ignore the rulings of an independently created court and impartial jurors.
April 30, 2008 at 9:43 pm
“Unrepentant terrorist” - Now where have I heard that one? Oh yeah - Sean Hannity.
Some people just can’t hink for themselves.
May 1, 2008 at 4:28 am
As for Tony’s bringing up the name of Oliver North…
Here is a man who, while in uniform and holding the rank of colonel, I believe, participated in a conspiracy hatched by the upper ranks of the Reagan/Bush Administration which committed one crime, selling arms to Iran, in order to commit another, the illegal support of the right-wing death squads in Nicaragua. Now, this man admitted his guilt. He in effect fell on his sword in order to protect his superiors. These days, North is a commentator on several right-wing radio and television propaganda blasts. I guess, in effect, he is Fox News’ kind of terrorist.
May 9, 2008 at 6:40 pm
From nicholsg99:
“- the message from the anti-Ayres’ folks is, “the government is always right, and ordinary citizens are never allowed to challenge the government’s actions, nor to call attention to any mistakes, nor blunders, nor any mishandling of any situation.”
Actually, that’s not what we object to at all. We’re talking about an unreconstructed communist who didn’t just “challenge the government’s actions” or “call attention to any mistakes”… he was involved in an underground, communist group that sought the overthrow of the government through inciting a revolution through the use of terrorist tactics (such as bombs).
That’s not just challenging the government on some issue or public dissent.
And the reason that ppl are saying Ayers is a communist is because he is. The SDS, the Revolutionary Youth Movement, the Weatherman, etc sought the implementation of communism in the US.